Nedumerire ...

[Nox]

Evoluþia þine de optimizare, nicidecum de complicarea (complexitatea) sau simplificarea (simplitatea) unui ansamblu.

[LP]

Intrebare de baraj:

Daca suntem fortati sa traim sub pamant, ne dispar membrele sau murim?

[Kymosabe]

Ar fi interesant de aflat, cum ar trebui sa se modifice conditiile de mediu ca o fiinta sa renunte la o parte din creier. Tot evolutie s-ar chema?

Intrebare de baraj:

Daca suntem fortati sa traim sub pamant, ne dispar membrele sau murim?

,,[..]Mediul ºi adaptarea la mediu duc la modificarea caracterelor unei specii dacã factorul cauzal persistã suficient în timp.
[..]Existã 2 teorii cu privire la apariþia ºerpilor ca specie. Prima afirmã cã ºopârlele s-au adaptat la viaþa subteranã ºi astfel au involuat cele 4 membre, intâi cele anterioare apoi cele posterioare.
Cea de-a doua teorie spune cã ºerpii îºi trag originea din reptilele marine. ''

PS Întrebarea ta este la fel de ,,inteligentã'' ca ºi cea a lui Cãutãtorul . :wink: (fãrã supãrare)

[Cautatorul]

Daca tot vorbim de evolutie.
In prezent cercetatorii au creat plante si animale modificate genetic. In special plantele sunt cele mai raspandite.

De exemplu exista o specie de porumb daca nu ma insel care nu este atacata de insecte, pentru ca s-a introdus o gena de la o bacterie care produce un fel de insecticid, astfel incat porumbul respectiv isi produce singur insecticidul.

Sa ne imaginam un cataclism care ar face ca oamenii sa se intoarca in epoca de piatra (meteorit, vulcani, razboi, etc).

Peste cateva mii de ani, oamenii probabil vor redescoperi ADN-ul, si isi vor pune intrebari legate de creatie, de puteri supranaturale, civilizatii trecute, etc.

Va exista un Darwin care va spune: Iata acea specie de porumb a evoluat si la un moment dat mutatia (naturala o sa spuna el) a fost un avantaj care s-a perpetuat si astfel a aparut specia de porumb care isi produce singura insecticidul.

Numai ca de fapt acea specie de porum nu avea cum, datorita mutatiilor naturale, sa se doteze cu o gena de la o bacterie.
Va aparea veriga lipsa a evolutiei porumbului.

Pariez ca si atunci vor exista unii care ne vor explica cum e cu evolutia.
Cu siguranta cand se vor decoda genomurile tuturor vietatilor de pe pamant, se va gasi daca nu dovada Creatiei, cel putin dovada ca cineva, candva, a umblat la ADN-urile fiintelor de pe Pamant. Unele specii au facut salturi prea bruste ca sa se poata explica prin simpla evolutie.

E clar ca evolutia functioneaza (dovada bacteriile care devin rezistente la diverse antibiotice, in cazul lor e o evolutie rapida datorita duratei vietii a lor mici). Dar sunt sigur ca ADN-urile fiintelor de pe pamant au multe sa ne spuna. Cum ar fi faptul (de la National Geographic citire) ca omenirea intreaga se trage dintr-o femeie ce a trait in Africa acum cateva zeci de mii de ani.

Evolutia exista si functioneaza, dar ea nu poate explica totul.

[sevastase]

 In the Bible.. after the deception, God says that from then on, the serpent would have no legs and crawl around on his belly? Doesn't this imply that at the time the serpent DID have legs.. kind of like a reptoid?
Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise they head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Is there a race of reptoids co-existing with us? Is there a secret group, running the world who worship a reptoid? Is it just one of MANY reptoids? Is it the leader of the reptoids? Is it a completely different being, separate from those reptoids? Do those reptoids even exist? Are the reptoid race nothing more than Mankind's perceived evils personified into a form which is the personification of evil in the Bible? Is it the Bible which makes them Reptoid and not, say.. arachnid?
So would Eden be real? Not in the literal sense, but an actual place that man was banished from because of these reptoids?
Pindar.......the lizard king

It is said that the garden of Edan was not on this planet and that we have been planted and the reptoid were our jailers?
On the subject of Reptoids and such, are any of you familiar with the statuettes from the Jarmo excavation? Reptilian people doing ordinary things, nursing babies, etc....and they also made them of regular people, so, combined with the ordinary activities they are depicted doing, not likely to be idols or anything of the sort....
Some basic info here:

http://www.anthro.mankato.msus.edu/archaeology/sites/middle_east/jarmosite.html

It's 7000 BC actually, and in Iraq....so probably largely destroyed by now
The stories about reptilian visitors extend from India, to Mexico, to China, back to North America, and Russia, and even many parts of Africa and South America.
There are a lot of links to Jarmo and these lizard people and many other early cultures of the with similar traditions. The Jarmo statuettes are the closest thing to hard evidence. It goes without saying, in a world full of skeptics, any bits of hard evidence are priceless.

http://www.greatdreams.com/reptlan/pindar.htm

[LP]

Intr-adevar, intrebarea mea e stupida in sine.. dar teoria evolutiei nu e stupida si ea (cel putin in momentul actual...)? La stupizenii se raspunde cu stupizenii... In primul rand pentru a avea timp sa evoluezi, sa iti modifici corpul e nevoie de timp... de foaaarte mult timp. Sa nu uitam crocodilii, broastele testoase, soparlele, etc. care nu au evoluat in timp! Culmea ca fosilele lor sunt aproape identice cu animalele vii actuale. De obicei, nevoia de evolutie apare pe nepusa masa si in timp f scurt! Un organism care functioneaza bine nu are nevoie sa se modifice in timp.. ori o modificare a propriei persoane implica ratiune! Un crocodil care o duce bine in Nil nu cred ca se va gandi sa se modifice in 10000 de ani sa treaca in Dunare! Sau altfel: daca temperatura Nilului scade in 30 de ani, ce se va intampla cu crocodilii? Vor supravietui? Au timp sa se adapteze (adaptarea nu e evolutie, insa e o parte necesara din fenomen)? Daca se adapteaza isi schimba si dieta? Un exemplu de lipsa de evolutie si adaptare e la corali: pur si simplu mor la schimbari mici din ecositemul lor. Insa sunt prezenti in istoria pamantului aproape de la inceputuri (nu mai tin minte cand au fost descoperiti prima data in strate geologice...). Asta ce indica? Evolutie/involutie/handicap/lipsa de personalitate?

Astfel ca o pasare care are nevoie de o schimbare rapida s-ar putea (99% sanse) sa nu supravietuiasca. Evolutia este calea usoara de a explica anumite evenimente din trecut care ne depasesc. Nu sunt adeptul creationismului pur si simplu.. toate aceste fenomene se intampla conform unor legi chimice,fizice, etc. care se pot explica. Acuma cat putem explica in prezent si ce vom putea mai tarziu, nu stiu inca. Ne intalnim pe la 80 de ani si mai dezbatem problema.

[AdiM]

Cred ca un crocodil nu isi pune deloc problema cum va evolua specia sa in urmatorii 10.000 de ani. La fel, nici un om nu stie cum va evolua corpul uman in urmatorii 10.000 de ani. Procesul e mai inalt decit simpla existenta sau constiinta individuala, cred eu. Mai degraba, cred ca fiecare specie evolueaza in milenii sub supravegherea unor entitati mai inalte decit ceea ce vedem noi pe Pamint. Inclusiv omul.

[sevastase]

Sa vedem ce parere au cei ce au observat crearea noastra despre evenimentele primordiale :

From the Halls of Records
First book of the Chroniclers of the Central Race

Chapter one

1. In the second Adamic epoch in the galaxy Archadia near Orion's fledgling star systems arose the mighty ones of old. Masters of the forces from stars that have collapsed into the shadows of antiquity they set about to place their seed upon the worlds they formed.
2. Twenty and eight million million strong they gathered forth from the dust and the ashes of the once molten planets awaiting life from their oceans and their flora fashioned in the manner prescribed by the council of the supreme Elohim.
3. The central race mastered the art of design within the twirling molecules of life which gave rise to all the forms they would create. Some in the manner of beasts and others in the like manner of themselves and others still in the manner of small swimming creatures of the waters of the deep.
4. After three hundred and forty seven planets they had formed and placed their creations it was decreed that the final form had been finally fused. A creature having bisymmetrical features and four appendages was decided upon as being most adaptive to the harsh environments of the inner planets and also capable of evolving into higher intelligence. There name was Adama one of the male essence and Eva one of the female essence.
5. Their task had been fulfilled within the commands of the first order of the sovereign Source. A body in which to explore the physical had been perfected within the lower frequencies of light realm. Thus the central race is called the second source whereby all non synthetic beings were to be fashioned.
6. Shatan, ruler of the serpent race and prince of fourth astral dimension, sent forth his armies from the far outer reaches of Archadia.
7. His blind loathing for the begotten of first Source placed within his army of animusae, a fierce and mighty legion of 6 million million borgian warriors, and the herpisaurians, a race from the galactic quadrant called Draconis, the command to destroy all containers of the divine spirit soul.
8. And thus the children of Orion were pursued for seven million years until the command went out from Shantenilia, the city of pure sentient light, to take the remaining children of the Most High Source to the Sol system. This accounting was in the fifth epoch of the birth of Archadia, or twenty six million years before the birth of Immanuel the sufferer upon planet Terra.
9. The herpisaurians pursued them cloaked behind the veils of sandora. Animusae became lost. A blindness struck and caused them to venture into the central abyss of Archadia where they lost all means to navigate. It had been decreed that only Shatan and a small portion of his animusian army be spared the eternal doom but that they would be confined in the etheral realms of the astral for a time until he and his legions will be released to the physical do battle again at the end of the age of the poissonis.
10. In that day they will discover Terra in the physical as foretold by the Oracle of the system Osiris near Arcturus.

     In the Bible Eve is beguiled by a Serpent and then has to endure the wrath of God. The story Emit tells is somewhat different. Sharon told me the following:


I plan to post a discourse (Unfortunately she wasn`t able to, because of warnings threatening her not to release anymore info. over the net.) of Emit's. It has to do with the serpent in the "garden of Eden" which was in reality a huge domed structure that was part of Celestia (Planet-X/Nibiru, etc)... the ship we came in from the Orion Nebula... that landed in the region we now call Egypt near the pyramids... or where the pyramids would be built. This Herpisaurian entity lured a female into having sex with "it" with false claims that she could do this even though she was told by an Elohim (Wingmaker/Anunnaki)  that was with them on this landed craft not to have sexual union with anyone not of their race... DNA structure that is. The resulting birth was a child named Cainod... Cain in the bible... and was the hybrid being that started the reptilian / humanoid race that now runs this planet. I am condensing a fascinating story from the book that Emit left me that I quoted from, i,e, the Chronicles book. It seems that the bible is a highly symbolic and highly condensed version of this book from the Hall of Records.

The hall of records is so vast that it covers the detailed histroy and future of much of this part of the galaxy. See now why the Vatican guards this secret! Many of the popes were / shapeshifting reptilians. If our pineal glands were fully functional we would see them! Watch "They Live" and you will see this truth portrayed in drama form.

Oh yes... the fruit she ate was in reality a mushroom type growth (See photo below)  that the Elohim had not yet perfected for us and was actually a poison at that time. The fruit that Eva ate is a derivative of the Amanita Muscaria mushroom that stimulated the pineal gland to see into other dimensions. My understanding is that the actual "fruit"...Amanita Muscaria... was not what we have today but an evolved derivative of it... different chemistry. We were in the process of becoming more adapted to this planet by the Elohim's genetic engineering while another group was on Mars doing the same thing... it is a long a fascinating story and ocurred long before Atlantis or Lemuria. The serpent who beguiled "Eve" was attempting to vainly fuse our souls from the divine first Source into their kind. These creatures hate us because they envy us.

Emit is/will be/was the product of the whole 24/23 (Sharon first said 24, but then corrected herself.) chromazonal structure being activated making him equivalent to what the Sumerians worshipped, the Anunnaki Elders or Wingmakers! When our DNA is completely active, and not dormant as it is now, we too will have the pineal gland activated and live very long lives unrestrained by space and time with abilities that Yeshua displayed in the New Testament! Yes Yeshua too was a perfected Anunnaki! I might stand corrected about the number of chromosomes... I think it should be 23. Anyway our DNA is the biblical TREE OF LIFE!!!!

http://www.geocities.com/tiaka9/eden.html

[Cautatorul]

Daca tot se vorbeste aici despre evolutie/creatie, iata o dovada ca omul nu s-a tras din maimuta (sau cel putin nu s-a tras dintr-o anume maimuta):

"Secretul Evei: nu avem gene de Neanderthal"
http://www.cotidianul.ro/secretul_evei_nu_avem_gene_de_neanderthal-54568.html

citez cateva fragmente:

"Oamenii de ºtiinþã au reuºit sã decodifice, pentru prima datã, o secvenþã întreagã de ADN, preluatã din fosila veche de 38.000 de ani a unui Neanderthal."

"Echipa a analizat ADN-ul a 13 gene mitocondriene ºi a observat cã acestea sunt complet diferite de cele ale oamenilor moderni, sugerând cã neanderthalienii nu au interacþionat sexual cu oamenii, decât, poate, în câteva excepþii. Materialul genetic a mai indicat cã ultimul strãmoº comun al oamenilor ºi al neanderthalienilor a trãit acum 660.000 de ani, ,,The Guardian" numindu-l ,,Eva ancestralã, mama tuturor neanderthalienilor". "

Cum spuneam mai multe la:
http://www.cotidianul.ro/secretul_evei_nu_avem_gene_de_neanderthal-54568.html

[liteady73]

 Salut Sevastase !...

Dumnezeu isi iubeste si isi protejeaza toate creatiile vii si nevii, conform canonicelor crestine. Atunci de ce se razbuna pe un sarpe? Nu mai e impartial cum Il credeam.

Deci, e o metafora.

Dumnezeu nu exista. Exista o Entitate Suprema care ne depaseste puterea de intelegere si contact. Doar intelegem ca-L/O putem intalni din nou. Pe drumul vietii noastre vedem mici urme si dovezi ale existentei acestei Fiinte Supreme.

[fiulploii]

Nu are rost sa deschid un subiect nou si cred ca aici ar fi potrivită continuarea ...
   Rasa Pre-adamică . Caut idei sau dovezi ale existentei unei tehnologii preadamice prin asta înțelegând ca iau in considerare urmele umane descoperite din întâmplare , vechi de milioane de ani, urme găsite uneori alături de urmele de dinozauri .
   Daca aveți ceva idei le voi citi cu plăcere . O sa revin curând pe subiect si cu alte detalii .